In a new interview with Leona Graham on The Leona Graham Podcast, Toyah reflects on challenges she’s faced in her last 50 years in the industry, including her current experience of ageism:
‘I'd say in this millennium I've had to deal with quite different things. Life has been fantastic. I've made wonderful movies, done fantastic tours, but there's that edge of, ‘oh, you are old now.’ And I'm thinking, ‘Yeah? And I have pedigree, deal with it.’
Toyah also reveals that her first introduction to rock music came when she broke into a Black Sabbath gig at the age of 12:
‘…a roadie opened the exit. I think it was the Top Rank in Birmingham. And I slipped in. I think I was on my own and I didn't know what to expect, but I'd heard a lot about Black Sabbath and it was so incredibly loud. And I think I was one of about two women in the audience. It wasn't a huge audience but I will never, ever forget hearing “Paranoid”.’
Plus, she shares a sneak peek of a story featured in her upcoming tour Songs and Stories, of when she partied with the KGB at one of her gigs.
A Side.
?So let's go back, back in time. Who were your greatest musical inspirations when you were growing up?
My first one was Tommy Steele because I was very, very young and there was a song called “The Little White Ball” that I just sang around the house. But my real kind of introduction to rebellious rock music was David Bowie, Mark Bolan, Alice Cooper. I have to admit, I saw Black Sabbath when I was 12 years old 'cause I broke into the venue in Birmingham where they were playing.
You did what?
Well, I broke into a venue in Birmingham. In those days, a lot of bands and roadies would open the exits so kids could get in, and they taught me how to do it when I was famous, we would just leave the fire exits open so kids could get in who couldn't buy a ticket. So a roadie opened the exit. I think it was the Top Rank in Birmingham. And I slipped in. I think I was on my own and I didn't know what to expect, but I'd heard a lot about Black Sabbath and it was so incredibly loud. And I think I was one of about two women in the audience. It wasn't a huge audience but I will never, ever forget hearing “Paranoid”.
Oh wow. That is incredible and inspiring. And you formed the Toyah band in 1977. How did that come about?
Well, I joined the National Theatre in 1976 and I was born in Birmingham and I was invited by the German film Star, Maximilian Schell to be in his play that he was directing called Tales from the Vienna Woods. So once I was living in London right at the era of punk, I was free. I was free of the constraints of home life. I met musicians, I was writing music, and I just started to meet the right people. I needed to put a band together and I met my long-term writing partner at that particular history of mine called Joel Bogan. And we did about five, seven albums together.
Speaking of albums, your third studio album, Anthem was the Band's most successful. Why do you think that resonated the most with with people in general, especially the hit single “I want to be free”?
I know. I love that song. I think what it was is I'd been around a good four and a half years before “It’s A Mystery” went into the charts and I was considered part of the London art scene. And then Anthem came along and I loved making Anthem and it was a new band and I was away making Tales from the Unexpected in Norwich. And the band was sending me backing tracks and I was writing lyrics on set and then had to return to London and we recorded my vocals within eight days. And I really enjoyed making this album and the whole process. With “I want to be free” - I’m dyslexic, I found my 14 years in basic school was not serving me well. I needed to be in a drama school or a music school. And I was bored to tears and “I want to be Free” was about my need to be heard and to be developed for who and what I was. And in 2017, Derek Jarman's film Jubilee, which I starred in alongside Jordan and Adam Ant, came to the stage and it had a gender neutral cast and they chose, “I want to be Free” as their encore song because they felt it represented them. And I'm really passionate about that song.
And what made you decide to go solo in 1983?
That was kind of management pressure really because, ironically, when you have a female singer in a band like Blondie became Debbie Harry, Toyah became Toyah solo. It was management pressure. CBS were forming a new label called Portrait and they wanted me as a solo artist on it, along with Alison Moyer, Pat Benatar, and I just went with that.
Yeah so you just did what you were advised to do at the time. What was your experience like as a female artist in punk during the eighties?
It was relatively good. My experience in punk in the seventies was extraordinary.
Oh, wow, tell us more.
It was an awakening and I felt I was never judged for my physicality. The one thing I found absolutely incredible about the punk movement is that they welcomed everyone. And for a woman that was incredible, they weren't judging my shape or my size. In the eighties, in that incredible success I had, I was encouraged to be a lot lighter in body weight, it became about creating new images every three months. And I'm not complaining, this is just stating facts. We were under pressure like influencers are today to constantly change, but at the same time, people wanted to remember me as I was on my very first Top of the Pops appearance. It was a very strange time of fast moving production and image changes and sound changes, and eventually, by about 1985/86, I started to move back into theatre because I just needed to refresh my soul. I needed to do some serious revision about who and what my aims were and just find myself again rather than be moulded.
I mean, how does that experience then compare to nowadays?
Well, interestingly now I have to deal with being older and I would say now there is a 50%, kind of half of my life where people just respect me for my age, and then the other 50% can't forgive me for my age. And it's really, really interesting. And I'm very stubborn about it. I just don't take ageism at all and I certainly don't take sexism but I just stand my ground. I'm tough. And it's funny you asked that question because I'd say in this millennium I've had to deal with quite different things. Life has been fantastic. I've made wonderful movies, done fantastic tours, but there's that edge of, ‘oh, you are old now.’ And I'm thinking, ‘Yeah? And I have pedigree, deal with it.’ Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. It's really interesting to hear it from that point of view.
And I find a lot of women come to me through video messaging, celebrity messaging, asking for advice on how to deal with it. And I just think we have to be positive. We have to be bright and beautiful kind of fashionistas - just don't cower into a corner.
You are on tour again very soon yourself. I mean, can you tell us a bit about what we can expect from that?
It's a storytelling and music tour. It comes with a book called Meteorite, which is a visual biography of my last 50 years in the industry. It's a fun tour. My stories are quite rebellious, so I tell these really weird stories of association and being in the wrong place at the right time.
And can you give us a sneak peek of a story from the book?
Well, the sneak peak is turning up in 1978 to play Uxbridge University, and the university gigs in the late seventies were breathtaking. We never had security and they were wild and it's still punk. And in the car park were four huge man-mountains in black suits, and when we got off the bus, they came up to us with an interpreter and they showed us these badges that said ‘Moscow’. And they were the KGB coming to collect foreign exchange students to take them back to Russia, but they wanted to see my show. So we couldn't communicate with them, ‘come back later and see the show’. So they followed us into the dressing room and they never left. And they followed us on stage and they sat on stage during the show getting covered in spit the way we were. And then after the show, they came back to the dressing room. They were having a wonderful time and they got the vodka out and we didn't leave that dressing room till 9:00 AM the next morning when we were thrown out.
That is incredible. So this is what we can expect on your tour?
Yeah, it's very rebellious!
I love this. And of course you're a musician and you're an accomplished actor. Have you found juggling the two careers tricky or do you intend to continue doing both?
I do intend to continue doing both, I find it frustrating if I can't do both at the same time. For example, I'm on the road, I’m doing 49 dates of the storytelling tour, and if a movie comes in, I just won't be able to do it. But over the summer, I've got a beautiful movie in production - I actually have two. You never quite know when they're gonna start, but I've told everyone I am not available until July.
Quite an exciting life you're leading, cramming all this in!
It’s okay, yeah, it's good. At this very moment, I'm making an album and I start the tour in four days.
Oh wow, so literally cramming everything in?
Yeah.
And you've also collaborated and performed with some amazing artists over the years, who is the coolest person you've worked with and why?
I loved opening for Billy Idol. He was so cool, Steve Stevens his guitarist was so cool, the whole band were fabulous, but also on this tour was Killing Joke and it was really nice to reconnect with them. I toured with Adam Man last year and again, that was a full circle moment because I made the movie Jubilee with Adam Ant in ’77. And that was a really great tour.
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