Little Simz opens up about not working with Inflow on ‘Lotus’ album, how tensions on the Top Boy set may have helped it success, letting go of anger towards her estranged father, why she cancelled her US tour, why she prefers not to be referred to as a ‘female MC’ and much more.
Little Simz calls Lotus the ‘most personal’ album she’s made to date after struggling with changes to her team: “I'm not like made of like stone or something. I feel a lot and I feel it's hard to like lose people and it's sad but I'm always going to have my music and that's what I'm so grateful for.”
Louis: So I said I was going to make it awkward. Are we going to put the name out there of the person being addressed in Thief? It sounds like it's someone in the industry.
Simz: Mm-hmm. I think the album is my most personal yet. The album that was probably the hardest for me to make on so many levels. Because I knew if I'm going to take it now, I'm going to take it there and I'm going to have to touch on things are going to be uncomfortable and that are going to be hard to talk about as well. Because it's essentially dealing with grief. […] letting people in on that process and how that feels and how I'm dealing with it. And like you said, there's a lot of anger.
Louis: When you say grief, do you mean the grief or, because I get the sense we're probably not going to unpick Thief, like the specifics of who it's about. It's probably just as well. But is it the feeling of grief, that feeling like people you collaborated with, or friends of yours that you knew from early on, weren't the friends that you needed them to be, or is there other grief that you're talking about? Just
Simz: The ending to something coming to an end.
Louis: What was coming to an end?
Simz: I’m moving on, other people are moving on, things are coming to an end, you know?
Louis: A team breaking up.
Simz: A team, breaking up, a separation […] you know, and there's so much investment into that friendship or whatever it is. Whether it's working on music or you know, but that legacy will always be there and that will always continue. But it's not just this next phase, this next chapter is no longer, then that hurts. I'm not like made of like stone or something. I feel a lot and I feel it's hard to like lose people and it's sad but I'm always going to have my music and that's what I'm so grateful for. I'm always going to have this thing even it was so challenging to make this record and as I say, big up emotionally. And big up Miles because he really like helped me overcome a doubt that I just felt like, I don’t know how I'm going to… I might be wasting your time here, mate. I'll be honest, really, you know? I can't look at you and say, by the end of this, we are definitely going to have an album that's going to be wicked. You know, I don't feel that I'm not feeling it at all, but I'm going to show up every day. Every day I'm going to come here and I'm going to give my best. And if you're just patient with me, I'll do what I can. I just have to be honest with everyone. Like, I don’t know what you think you're stepping into, but I don't feel like I've got it right now. Whatever it is that you think I've got, I definitely don't feel like I've got that.
Little Simz opens up about “plagued” with self-doubt whilst creating her album, Lotus: “I don't know if this is the path I should be continuing. It's very sad to me, like considering this is, yeah, I've done this my whole life, you know?”
Louis: What I picked up was that coming into it [the upcoming album], you were filled with self-doubt. You talk about feeling like you've got writer's block, that this isn't maybe the path for you anymore. “I was lonely making an album. I attempted it four times, lost my confidence, and you wouldn't believe why. Sitting in the studio with my head in my hands thinking, what am I to do with this music? I can't write.” Then later on you say, “team falling apart and I'm caught in the crossfire.”
Simz: Mm-hmm.
Louis: What was going on?
Simz: Just a lot of change. It was a very transitional period in life. I kind of wish I leaned on my family […] My family, I love them so much. They're so important to me.
Louis: Your mum and your three siblings. Basically.
Simz: Yes. Obviously, that's my family of origin. They have known me since I've come out of the womb.
Louis: Right. Because you're the youngest.
Simz: Yes. So because I'm the baby in my family, I kind of wanted to subconsciously prove that no, I can stand on my own, I can figure things out, I can make my own decisions, this, that, and the third. Because they’re very protective […] Then in moments like that, when I listen to that song, I wish I didn't feel like I had to be strong all the time or make like I've got it all figured. The song Lonely was feeling like that and the creative realm as well, of having to essentially make a record that I'm struggling to believe in, which is weird because I've always been a confident kid. I've always believed in myself. So, the minute I’m plagued with self-doubt, I'm like, whoa, this is mad. I don't know how to deal with this. I don't know if this is the path I should be continuing. It's very sad to me, like considering this is, yeah, I've done this my whole life, you know?
Louis: You also say something about, “I don't even know who I'm meant to be anymore”.
Simz: Yeah.
Louis: Why would that be? Is it to do with the marketplace of trying to cater to what you feel the industry or the audience wants you to be?
Simz: No, I've never really catered to what anyone wants me to be. I think I've always just been me. I've always just been myself, but I think I do put a lot of pressure on to be the best.
Little Simz on how tensions on the Top Boy set helped it to reach the heights of success it did: “It takes sometimes bumping of heads or whatever it is to get the best results”
Louis: People are going to want to talk about Top Boy because it's Top Boy and it was such a great series and it felt like it was bringing aspects of British culture to a global audience, unapologetically British, in terms of the slang and the lifestyle that it depicted. I got the sense sometimes that it was maybe a difficult set to be on, quite a bit of drama, but maybe not.
Simz: In what sense?
Louis: Personalities, you know, because you've got Netflix who've got what they want it to be. You've got Kane and Ashley who've got a vision for what they want it to be. You've got Ronan Bennett, who is the showrunner, who's obviously a white Irish guy, but who also kind of created the concept. So he's got his vision plus big dramas like that where there's pressure and a lot of people, they always involve a bit of emotional politics.
Simz: Everyone was just super passionate about the show because we understood the weight of it and how much it meant to people. So it's like, we want to get it right, you know? Even though it's very real, it's still art at the end of the day and it's still fiction. So people have their ways of wanting to tell things, none of it's bad or wrong, it's just different, you know? But I think nothing amazing can be produced in an easy, just very relaxed, chill environment. It sometimes takes bumping heads or whatever it is to get the best results. That’s what we were able to do. There's a reason why it worked on Channel 4 and it got brought back and it done what it done on Netflix, you know?
Little Simz on how Kano supported her as she was up and coming: “He's just always been hailing me up and showing mad love and having my back”
Louis: Top boy.
Simz: Yes.
Louis: Kano brought you in for the audition.
Simz: Yeah, exactly.
Louis: How did you know him? Just from the London music scene?
Simz: I met Kane through my first manager and he was just showing love and kind of anything I needed, if it was advice, which was super nice because when you're young and up and coming, you have so many like questions, things you want to ask and things you want to know, but you don't really know who to turn to or who to ask or who to reach out to or that fear of not hearing. Kano was one of the first people that made his presence very apparent in my career, in my life, I was like, “yo, I got you. Anything you need, you know?” So yeah, just from that point, he's just always been hailing me up and showing mad love and having my back. For sure.
Little Simz on letting go of any anger towards her father after he walked out: I'd link him for sure. Yeah. I'm not an angry teen.
Louis: There’s a song which it's called I Love You, I Hate You, is it?
Simz: Yeah.
Louis: Is that the one we talk about your feelings about your dad.
Simz: Mm-hmm.
Louis: “You made a promise to God to be there for your kids. You made a promise to give them a life you didn't live. My ego won't fully allow me to say that I miss you. A woman who hasn't confronted all her daddy issues. Never thought my parent would give me my first heartbreak”. What do you wanna say about that?
Simz: Literally that. I didn't think that would be the first time my heart got broken. You don't expect it to be from your parent, you know? What that does and how that seeps into your adult life and all that s***, you know?
Louis: What was the heartbreak?
Simz: It's like abandonment, isn't it? Like he's just kept it moving. No check in. I loved my dad when I was little. I was a daddy's girl. I felt like my dad loved me. Then for you him to just bounce it is quite woah, you know?
Louis: Of course. Did he not check back in? What was his visitation like?
Simz: There was none at all. No.
Louis: Where did he go?
Simz: I don't know. I haven’t got a clue.
Louis: Did he start another family?
Simz: I have no idea.
Louis: Do you see him now?
Simz: No.
Louis: At all?
Simz: No. I have seen him since I was 11. But we don't have a relationship, but I don't have like, any bad, like, you know. Again, thank God for music and me being able to have that space to process and talk about it, it really does allow me to let go, you know? Sometimes to move on from a situation, just give it time after I've written it and I've processed it, just like, okay, maybe I can try and look at things from a different perspective. I don't hold like any negative… I want him to be well, happy, healthy, of course.
Louis: If he said, I'd like to get back in touch, maybe he has, if he said, let's meet up?
Simz: I'd link him for sure. Yeah. I'm not an angry teen. Life's too short, man. You know what I mean? I'm not afraid of a conversation or a meeting of minds and you being able to speak your peace and me being able to speak mine, even if we never have this father daughter connection or relationship that I thought we'd always have that I’ve been at peace with that.
Little Simz on cancelling her US tour last year: “I didn't want to put myself in a situation or position where I just felt like it was going to cause me a lot of mental, physical, financial strain.”
Louis: But did I read that you were going to do a tour there [in the States] last year and you cancelled it?
Simz: Yeah.
Louis: And what was that about?
Simz: It wasn't making sense.
Louis: Why not?
Simz: I didn't want to put myself in a situation or position where I just felt like it was going to cause me a lot of mental, physical, financial strain.
Louis: Your team was having to mainly what? Drive it and book it and promote it and do all this stuff.
Simz: Yeah.
Louis: So you felt exposed.
Simz: This is my own learning because I could have said, I don't want a tour right now. Instead of announcing a tour, let people buy tickets and then have to disappoint. You know what I mean? That's my own learning. It's my own bad. It's just learning how to say, no, I'm taking care of me right now.
Little Simz on her late friend Harry Uzoka attending her early gigs: “Just always championed me, always believed in me”
Louis: When did you start with the therapy?
Simz: It's been a year. Yeah.
Louis: That can help. One of the things in terms of processing trauma, what came up in the notes was that a friend of yours who was a fashion model had been stabbed in Shepherd's Bush and killed. He was actually killed, wasn't he?
Simz: Yeah.
Louis: And that's referenced in some of your lyrics, I think.
Simz: Mm-hmm.
Louis: What was his name?
Simz: Harry Uzoka.
Louis: And he was a young fashion model.
Simz: Yeah, but the loveliest boy. Harry was literally one of 10 people at my shows, you know, when no one knew who I was. Just always championed me, always believed in me. Anytime we’d go and meet new people, he's like, “trust me, Simz is next”. I'd be like, “Harry, stop.” Just all shy. He always had my back. So that was super hard and tough to deal with, process. Still miss him very dearly. But yes, when I think about it, he will definitely be so proud of everything that's happening now. Rest in peace, Harry.
Little Simz and Busta Rhymes send each other ideas: “You know, just throwing paint at the wall”
Louis: Have you met those people?
Simz: Yeah, I've met Busta. I've spoken to Busta loads of times. He's really cool, man.
Louis: I think he's phenomenal. His rapping. Is he a nice guy?
Simz: Yeah. Really nice. The first time I spoke to him, I was in Jamaica, he hit me up.
Louis: Was he a fan?
Simz: Yeah. Was just showing mad love, just super nice, super respectful, just a nice guy. We've actually worked and stuff.
Louis: Have you?
Simz: Yes.
Louis: Did you get in the studio?
Simz: We haven't properly got in the studio. But we've back and forth been sending each other ideas.
Louis: Sending each other what?
Simz: Beats, lyrics, verses, little hook ideas. You know, just throwing paint at the wall.
Louis: Really? He spits so fast.
Simz: Yeah, he’s quick with it.
Little Simz on why she doesn’t want to be called a female MC: “It just feels a bit lazy”
Louis: I've read in the past that you don't even think of yourself as an MC necessarily. There was an interview with Cathy Newman where she called you a female MC and you're like; that's not really a label I identify with.
Simz: I shut it down.
Louis: […] Was that the female part or the MC part?
Simz: Maybe both. You get wound up.
Louis: Yeah, I could see that.
Simz: It just feels a bit lazy and I understand sometimes it's the quickest and easiest way to just identify what someone is, but it just never really sat well with me, that title.
Louis: I get it.
Simz: I think I'm just an artist, you know, and that's it.
