Zane Lowe joined global superstar Shakira in Miami to discuss her new album, “Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran”. During the conversation, Shakira describes the album as, "very conceptual,” explaining that, “it wasn’t like that intentionally…” She dives into the "visceral process" of creating the project, "No one plans on, going through so many difficulties and the complex life experiences that I had to go through, but, you know, when life gives you lemons, you have to make lemonade.”
Shakira is particularly grateful for the support, admiration, and love of her fans saying, "There was an echo to these feelings that I was encountering. And my fans were there every step of the way. They knew what was going on in my life. They were completely supportive and understanding.” She doubles down saying, "I feel that the fans have really demonstrated, their loyalty and for that I feel that I owe them big time."
Zane and Shakira also chat about her new life as a single mother, and the joy of sharing a love for music with her sons who make a special appearance on the album. This is Shakira’s first album in seven years and through that time she’s learned to value friendship “a little bit more,” and shares that, “it's better to trust than never to trust.”
Shakira on the process of creating her new album and her deep connection and relationship with her fans…
This has been a very visceral process. The creation of this album, and each one of these songs. I haven't created these songs by myself. I feel that it has been a process in which my audience also played an important role. Because as I was going through these complex life situations, they were there supporting me emotionally, giving me their feedback, and I was also finding myself reflected on their own experiences. There was an echo to these feelings that I was encountering. And my fans were there every step of the way. They knew what was going on in my life. They were completely supportive and understanding. There was this communion, you know, so feeling that level of support was a huge help for me. It was a huge encouragement for me to keep going. I never thought that my fans would come through for me so much in such an important way, as they did in the most important moments, the most fragile moments of my life.
I felt that my experiences were reflected in these songs, but a lot of [my fan’s] experiences and a lot of women out there who were going through similar situations as mine were also reflected on these songs. So there was a constant echo, a constant communication. It wasn't a monologue. And I feel that that made this process very emotional and very visceral and not intellectual at all.
I feel that the fans have really demonstrated, their loyalty and by demonstrating their loyalty and their love I felt so backed up. And so I feel that I owe them big time. And so I'm working my ass off because I want to make sure that I give back to them at least a quarter of what they've given to me. They are the best fans in the freaking world.
Shakira on making the most out of life’s complex situations…
I try to make the most out of those, traumatic experiences, and in a way sublimate, you know, a lot of desires and elaborate my own frustrations, my anger, my feelings of dissolution and, transform them into something productive, into creativity, into resilience and strength. I heal through this music, and I'm still healing. It's a process, but music has definitely played a very therapeutic role. I say that when I write music, it's like going to the therapist, only cheaper. And it does help you exercise a lot of intense emotions and feelings that otherwise would just fossilise.
Shakira on the most valuable lesson she’s learned…
It's better to trust than never to trust. It's better to trust and see, and find yourself betrayed than never to trust. Because, I try to teach my kids, there's a lot more good people in the world and it is worth it. It's worth it to love. Love is the most amazing experience a human can live. And no one should take away that opinion you know, from you. I think that there's so much good in people, there's so much, and it doesn't matter the the shitty experiences you go through in life, you have, there's just there's always a lot more to look forward.
Shakira on how her voice has evolved over the years…
Zane Lowe: I've heard you sing at the highest level and perform at the highest level throughout your career, on stage and on record. But I'd love to know whether you hear this too in your performance. Listening back to the record, I hear notes that were somewhere else. A sound that was tucked away and hidden until I guess, that pain and that vulnerability found those notes. I just hear your voice differently on this record.
Shakira: I feel that my voice keeps changing over the years, and I tell my kids that. I sometimes listen to some music of mine with them. Not on purpose, but it just happens, you know, maybe some a song, some comes out on the playlist or on the radio or whatever, and, we listen together and I say, I used to suck. But, I think I've evolved. I like myself much better now as an artist, but that's only me. Some of my fans probably like me better in some other stages of my artistic life. But I do think that I have evolved and my voice has changed so much. And also stylistically, I think I have matured, you know, like I make different stylistic choices than when I was younger.
Shakira on being a single mother…
Zane: You're busy. I know, very busy.
Shakira: Yeah. Very busy. It's been an intense week. I've been shooting a video, shooting photos, preparing for another video, preparing for my album release. So I'm going to sleep every day around 9 a.m. The next day, 9 a.m. 11 a.m. Yesterday, I came home at seven in the morning. My kids were already waiting for me, so I had breakfast with them, stayed up with them. Sometimes I don't even go to sleep until it's their bedtime. That's what I do because I want to spend time with my kids and put them to bed and then I pass out. So, it's been intense.
Zane: That's the beautiful balance.
Shakira: That's the beauty of juggling it all. It's the first time I have to actually, you know, deal with so much as a single mother. So, it's challenging. But they're great.
Zane: Did you have to tell the boys that you were going back to work?
Shakira: They understand how important making music is for me, how important it is to remain productive, to feel relevant in society, to find your own place in the community. And they're really great, understanding that and supporting me.
Shakira on her creative spirit while living in Barcelona versus now…
Zane: What was your creative spirit saying to you during those ten years you were living in Barcelona and you were prioritising your family and learning to be a mother and a parent and a partner? How was your relationship with your art during that time?
Shakira: It was kind of like a sometimes a love-hate relationship because every time I had to be pulled into the studio to do my work, I failed. I felt that I was leaving my family unattended. There were times when I really didn't enjoy it. You know, I felt guilt. I felt torn. But now it feels totally different. Even though, it's more challenging because now I'm in charge of these two kids, these two babies that depend on me so much. And I'm a single mother, I don't have a husband at home to help out with anything. In a way, it's kind of good not to have a husband because that…I don't know why it was dragging me down, man. Now I feel like working. I feel like writing songs. I feel like making music. It's a compulsive need of mine that I didn't feel before.
Shakira on featuring her kids on her album and her relationship with them post-break up…
Shakira: We share a love for music. We sometimes jam together. Sasha is learning how to play guitar and Milan is a really cool drummer and so he gets on the drums, Sash on the guitar, I sing, and we jam at home.
Zane: They sing on the record, they're on "Acrostical”. How was that moment collaborating with them on that song? Because it's a very vulnerable song. And I think as a parent, having been through that as a child of divorce and also being in relationships, in a relationship with our kids, and we're married, but, you know, you can't hide the tough times.
Shakira: No. You can’t.
Zane: What that moment was like for you realising that, that that magical era of protecting your children from reality, from the from the truth of life, we couldn't keep that up anymore.
Shakira: It was a learning curve. There were many lessons in that whole experience. Like you said, society teaches us to conceal our feelings in front of our kids. But I think that's a mistake, because they know better and they perceive things in many different ways. And they can tell when an adult is lying to them. They want the truth. Because if you don't give them the truth, then they make up their own version of the truth. And their interpretations of reality could be completely wrong and messed up and then its when things get really complicated for them. But if you if you're brave enough to talk about things, talking about it with them to understand how they're perceiving reality as well and open up a conversation, open up a dialogue where they can also give their opinions. And embrace their own vulnerability as well.
Shakira on her son, Milan creating music...
They know that this is one of my own ways to heal and to express myself is through my music. And they actually, they do it sometimes as well, like Milan. I remember he wrote two beautiful songs during the whole separation process. He wrote two songs on piano and lyrics. And whenever he feels a little down, he he goes to the piano and he writes. He writes music. And that is also his catharsis, his therapy. I think he’s probably going to be a producer, but he's obsessed with football.
[How the song "Acrostical” came to be] They start singing in the studio, you know, we're just playing. But they sounded so amazing and they're like, can we be on the record? But they knew this song was for them. So it was organic. And they're like, can we be in the video? But then I thought, you know what? It just came from them. And why not? They want to share their instrument as well.
On how her song “Shakira: Bzrp Music Sessions, Vol. 53” helped channel her emotions of anger and the importance of experiencing all the stages of grief in order to heal...
Zane: I think about the B-side at the "Volume 53", and I mean, that's just a crusher. It's a record breaking record now. You know, I think about the bravery required to record that, let alone release it. Was there ever any moment after you finished that session where you thought maybe I don't let this go.
Shakira: The thing is that some people on my team wanted me to change the lyrics. They were really scared about the reaction. I'm like, I'm not a UN representative, you know? I'm an artist and no one's going to tell me how I'm supposed to heal. And no one should tell any woman how she's supposed to heal and lick her wounds, you know? This is, this is another time that we're, that we're going through. Like, I know our mothers and grandmothers, people would tell them to hide their tears, conceal their feelings in front of their children and in front of society, accept what they had to go through, whatever it was. And that's it. Suck it up. But now things are different, and no one should tell anyone what the process should be like. And so this song was the perfect vehicle for me to channel all those emotions because, yeah, I've been going through like what? How many stages of grieving? Five, seven, five, whatever. In my case, probably 12 or 20. But in those stages, you of course. You encounter anger, encounter denial. And it is important to get to the acceptance. But you can't skip stages. You have to go through all of them.
And making all these songs is what really helped me elaborate all those feelings and those intense emotions and turn them into productivity. That's why the metaphor of the gems. That's why the metaphor of the diamond, the tears that became diamonds, because it's been a transmutation. It's been it's been like alchemy, you know, the process of transforming all of these emotions into something else.
Shakira on what her success has meant and touching on the five-story statue of her in Columbia…
Zane: The idea of like, when will success ever be able to validate my work and what I'm trying to achieve... Do you know what I mean? Like you have a statue in Colombia. No, not just a statue, by the way. It's five stories high. Have you seen it?
Shakira: I haven't seen it in person.
Zane: The idea that where you're from is so proud of what you've become and what you represent that they, they would they would erect something that would state, say as much?
Shakira: What that represents is that any woman, any little girl from Barranquilla, from Latin America or from any place in the world where conditions are not the most ideal. They can achieve whatever goal they set in their minds. You know that. I think that statue is just an example of what happened to me that can happen to literally anyone in my hometown. I feel that it represents not only my own dreams, but the dreams of all of the little girls and women.
On the song “Ultima” being the last song she hopes to ever write to “you know who”…
Zane: It must have been hard at first, though, because that's, as a performance and as a song and lyrically is a very it's a benchmark song for anyone to write. It's to let go of what you've been through and then share it with the world. Must have felt very emotional.
Shakira: Yeah, that song, it was the last one to that I wrote for this album, and that's why it's called "Última”. When the album was literally closed and there was no more time. Yeah, my time was up and I just insisted. I said, I got one more song here and it's like, it's, I gotta spit it out or it's, or I won't be able to, you know, I'll choke. I need, I need to get this one out.
Zane: I need to know what that feeling feels like when there's a song in you that's dying to get out.
Shakira: It's uncomfortable. So especially because they were telling me the people at Sony were like, no, no, no, no, there's no more time. This needs to be shipped, otherwise we're not going to make it to the have the vinyls ready. You can't do anything else with this album because I can like endlessly continue working on the album, tweaking stuff, mixing, and never let it go. So they were like, it's time to, it's time to let it go, Shakira let it go. Now I'm like, no, no, no, no. But there's one more, there's one more. And so I did it in one afternoon. We recorded it. And I mixed it right away and I just felt so much better. It was such a relief.
What's amazing about music is how people can connect to the same experience or to the same feeling, or even if they're not going through the same experience, just the empathy and the the mirror neurons that we all have that make us see our own reflection in, in this music. So when I play this song to the head of marketing at Sony, he came, he started to cry. I have never seen a man cry in my studio before. I've seen many women cry in my studio, but no man, uh, but he's a big softy. He started to cry with this song and I'm like, okay, I get it. It's not only about me. This song is not about me only, or him or. But I'm glad I was able to include it in the album, even if it's the last song, the last song that I write to him.
Shakira on valuing friendship over love – and if she thinks she’ll ever find love again…
Zane: What do you truly value now and has how do you really put life into context for yourself now? What's really, truly important to you now?
Shakira: Friendship. I think friendship lasts longer than love. Though I still think experiencing love, fully experiencing it with all its peaks and valleys it's so essential to the human life.
Zane: So you still love love?
Shakira: I love love, but I think I even love friendship a little bit more. Because I thought love would be there forever for me. And that's one of my, you know, broken dreams. Perhaps I will. I don't know if I'll like find that again. Probably not. Well, I don't know. But friendship, I have. I wasn't one of those people who valued friendship as much. I've always valued family, and having a partner in a couple. I've always been in a couple. But then when that wasn't there, and when I lost my boys and when I had to face the darkest and the hardest moments of my life. Friends were there. And they kept me together. Those who did really showed me the true, the true meaning of life. I might not grow old with a partner, but I will grow old surrounded by good friends.
