Journalist and broadcaster Alastair Campbell joins ABBA’s Bjorn Ulvaeus in a brand new episode of 'Bjorn from ABBA and Friends’ on Apple Music Hits. In the second episode from the new series that launched this week, Alastair discusses ABBA Voyage, hearing Winner Takes It All on the day Labour won the 1997 election, music in politics, his love for ABBA and more…
Alastair and Bjorn discuss ABBA Voyage…
Bjorn:
Well, it wasn't a reason why we did it. If people want to do that fine with me, but the reason I got so intrigued by this was the technology, that it actually can be done, that you can reproduce something that is a human being, but on a screen, this semi-human being can sing songs, and speak and do all kinds of things.
Alastair:
Does it worry you that, I mean, like doing it for music is sort of a force for good. Does it worry you that the same thing could be used as a force for bad?
Bjorn:
Absolutely. It does. But it was going to happen anyway, and we are out the first to do it, which is great, I think, to be the pioneers, but I'm sure in the future, we'll have to be very careful about what can be done with avatars.
Alastair:
The thing about you guys, and I imagine this is what you're doing at the moment is that you are, as a golfer would say on the back nine of life, and you've had this amazing career, but you want it to carry on after you are gone, and the thing about great music is you've got that. I think more than books, actually. I mean, books survive, of course they do. But I think the thing about music, your music will sound the same in 100 years.
Bjorn:
But do you think people will listen to it in 100 years?
Alastair:
Yes, definitely. Yeah, because I think you are a phenomenon. I think that if you think of the musicians that have been around in our lifetime, Beatles survive forever. Elvis, I think, survives forever. And I think on the pop front, I think you are right up there. So yeah, definitely. I think, look, my kids know who you are. My kids have a favourite ABBA song. Yeah, you'll be around, don't worry about that.
Alastair Campbell on music in politics…
...Look at the way it already has in Ukraine. If you think about the great political movements, if I think of some of the campaign songs, Bill Clinton, Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow, ours was Things Can Only Get Better.
Bjorn:
Yeah. McCain wanted to use, Take a Chance On Me.
Alastair:
Did he?
Bjorn:
But he was actually using it on the campaign trail when we found out.
Alastair:
And did you stop him?
Bjorn:
Yeah. We stopped him because we don't want to be political and that's choosing the President in the US.
Alastair:
Well, what's his name, Trump used Rolling Stones, You Can't Always Get What You Want, and I think The Stones tried to stop it.
Bjorn:
Yeah.
Alastair:
Yeah. So you wouldn't want to be used in a political campaign?
Bjorn:
No. Unless you see it as political to stand up for Ukraine in this situation. I mean on that level, yes definitely.
Alastair:
Have you guys never been dragged into the say, Swedish, political campaigns?
Bjorn:
No. Never.
Alastair:
And has that been a deliberate thing?
Bjorn:
Deliberate. Yeah. Absolutely.
Alastair:
Doesn't mean you don't have strong political views.
Bjorn:
No, I do. But we've always tried to stay out of party politics, domestically.
Alastair:
Probably wise.
Bjorn:
I think. So I've always myself, slightly disliked artists that I like and admire if they come out and they are joining a party, and being specific about it. I think it takes something away from their music and from their lyrics.
Alastair Campbell on Winner Takes It All…
Now, Winner Takes It All, let me tell you something. Winner Takes It All is in my diaries. And not just on any old day.
(Reading from book). May 1st, 1997. It was the day of our first election. Okay? It was a weird feeling. It was as if we'd been fighting a 15 round fight, and as the bell rang for the last round, the other guy just didn't turn up. I'd barely slept, even though for the first time in months, there was no reason to get up early. Because the campaign was finished. It was election day. I gave up trying to sleep just after 6:00, got up and read through the papers. It was so weird having time on my hands. At Myrobella House, which was Tony Blair's house up in the constituency, someone had turned on Radio 4, I switched it off. I said, we didn't have to worry anymore about the news. There was nothing more we could do. And I twiddled the knob to find the music station. And I found one playing ABBA, Winner Takes It All. John Burton, who is Tony's Sedgefield agent. He and I fell about. And it was actually, it was an amazing moment because that was the first time after three years of campaigning that I allowed myself to think we've definitely won. Winner Takes It All is up there for me.
Alastair Campbell on his love for ABBA…
Oh no, I think you were right up there. I've got to tell you this, I go swimming every morning in an open air pool not far from here. And there's a lot of regulars who go at seven oclock every morning, and there's usually quite good banter about politics, or football. And I said, this morning, "You will not believe what I'm doing today. I'm talking to Bjorn from ABBA," and they were amazed. And by ten past seven, the pool was people singing their favourite ABBA songs.
